April 25, 2024
The BigBoss Repository Controversy [Updated]

The BigBoss Repository Controversy [Updated]

Posted December 6, 2008 at 11:15pm by iClarified
Lately, there has been some controversy surrounding Sleepers.net and the BigBoss repository.

According to Sleepers.net, BigBoss took the repository away without their consent or knowledge.

As most of you know Mark [BigBoss] left and took the entire Repository and the BigBoss brand with him, without our knowledge or consent. So be it, this is something we are working on resolving.

Sleepers.net is now contacting developers that previously hosted on BigBoss requesting they use the new revamped Sleepers.net repo.

When you receive this email you will have login information to your iPhone Application management area and you will see the list of APPS that you hosted with us in the past. If you do not reply to the email to activate your account in our iPhone developers portal within 1 week the account will automatically be deleted and all packages associated with it. If you decide to host your app[s] with us at a later point in time you will have to go through the approval process and re-upload all of your apps to the system again.

Tonight BigBoss posted a lengthy article on the history of the BigBoss repository...

For those of you that may find this interesting, I thought I would explain a bit about the layout and history of the BigBoss repository.
December 2007: BigBoss was looking for a host because it was too much traffic for his little home network connection. Sleepers stepped up to offer hosting. The repostory, still "BigBoss repository" moved to sleepers.net for hosting.
October 2008: BigBoss moves hosting away from sleepers.net hosting the repostiory on his own servers only. Since the domain was always thebigboss.org or bigboss.us.com (same domain) there was no change noticed or required.

You can find BigBoss' History of the BigBoss repository here

Saurik creator of Cydia has commented to Sleepers.net concerned about this controversy.

(This is the author of Cydia.) I am concerned by the fact that you have decided to subvert one of the features I have been working on for Cydia, specifically comments. I am additionally concerned that you have decided to do your repository roll-out in a way that wages war (and creates user confusion) against an existing repository. This is not a very intelligent way to enter a market: making a fast enemy of the platform provider you are relying on.

Sleepers.net has now responded saying

Hi Saurik,

We apologize for the confusion, but any comments and the other parts of the system will be a self contained system, by way of a message board, specifically vBulletin. We are not tying into any part of the Cydia system, other then providing an additional url for users to input manually as an additional source. I am unclear as to your statement “by the fact that you have decided to subvert one of the features I have been working on for Cydia, specifically comments”, what does this mean specifically? We are not implementing anything to subvert the communities or your development efforts to your package.

As far as waging war against another repository, we are in no way trying to accomplish this, we are simply offering the services that we offered to iPhone developers since December of 07.

Sleepers was meant to be a community source from day one and we will continue to keep it as such, because the person that was in charge of the packaging portion of the system and approval of same for the repository decided to leave and take all of the packages off of our systems without our knowledge or consent was that persons choice. We have no animosity towards that person and wish him well. He is a big contributer to the community and I personally enjoy the apps that he has developed! Yes, I do visit his blog and enjoy the material he writes!

Sleepers, from it conception was meant to be a free repository that hosts iPhone applications for free. The blog portion of the site was meant to talk about all of the developers applications, not any one in particular developer. This is not what the intent was, but unfortunately that is the way that the site turned out. Well, that person has his own site where he can talk about his apps all day long, that is not Sleepers, and it will never be about one developer again.

We do not look at this as just entering the market, we have been in the market for a long time, we are simply putting our systems back online for the better of the community as a whole. I am actually beside myself that after all of this time you have decided to make a statement such as this in a public forum.

Sleepers was a big part of Cydia and our site has always helped promote your application, we are making no claim to anyone, nor to any group. We are simply re-implementing the repository to the way that it used to be. If our list of iPhone developers, that hosted with us in the past, do not wish to host packages and utilize the list of services we are rolling out to them that is their choice.

We are not the ones who have contributed any confusion to end users. The applications that are on our systems are outdated, it is up to the developer that owns the app if they want to upgrade the package or not. Again, if they do not reply to the email within a week all of their packages will be deleted. We are not going to release any outdated packages to users.

I am just wondering:

Why is this your first post on this site?
Why have you decided to single out this repository out of many?
Why do you claim we are going to cause confusion?
How are we making an enemy out of you?
Why these claims and statements against us?
Why do you feel we are JUST entering the market?
Is your application not built for the community and all hosting repositories?

We do feel obligated [to our over 12,000,000 unique visitors per month] to provide our visitors with what they have grown accustomed to seeing.

New applications.
Reviews on applications
Site and iPhone news.

This comment of yours

"making a fast enemy of the platform
provider you are relying on."

almost seems as if we are getting bullied out of our place in the iPhone community.

Is this your intent?

And finally we have Saurik's reply

Why is this your first post on this site?
Because I had not ever visited your website before today. Today I was told that you were creating a new repository that was likely to contain duplicated packages, and decided to check it out. One might just as well as "why did you only post this post today"? Why would have I posted to your site yesterday, is there something I should have seen yesterday?

Why have you decided to single out this repository out of many?
— First off, I am in the face of many repositories. Please do not claim that I am somehow singling you out. Your's is just the only one where "first contact" occurred from me being told to read a website, so this is the only one you would have seen the response to.

Why do you claim we are going to cause confusion?
— I have been told you were likely to A) contain duplicate packages and B) re-host a core package file from my repository (many currently consider the ability that someone could do this at all a security flaw in Cydia, and I believe I concur, but so far no one has had a sufficiently awesome user community to start with to be able to subvert anyone; I have been told your website is larger than most).

How are we making an enemy out of you?
— I have been working for a while now, coordinating with all of the repositories in the Cydia community, on how to handle ratings in a centralized fashion within the Cydia interface as part of the existing experience. Your "just for my repository" ratings system, if it is shown in the Cydia browser as part of a package Depiction (something you still seem to be indicating it will, from our conversations by e-mail), threatens this roadmap and may cause serious confusion with users who are trying to use it, as the two ratings system will be displayed very near to each other on the same screen in Cydia. I take the fact that you are doing this as an outsider to the community at large rather seriously.

Why these claims and statements against us?
— I feel like this question is redundant.

Why do you feel we are JUST entering the market?
— Because I have a list of all of the repositories in the system, and next to them I have the names of all of the contacts, and you aren't on them. The "market" that I am looking at, and the market I was referring to, is the market of Cydia repositories. Please note that Cydia != Installer, especially not Installer 3.x. If your claims are true for what you have done for the community: that's great, but you are just entering the world of Cydia and are doing it in such a way that has already alienated the guy who writes the software you are relying on.

Is your application not built for the community and all hosting repositories?
— Yes, and until I dragged you into it today (such as forcing you to join the cydia-packagers mailing list, which you weren't on), you haven't been a member of said community. "We", as a community, are working towards building something truly interesting, together: all of the major repositories (and some of the minor ones from some of the larger culture-specifics, like iPhoneIslam) stay in close communication so we can maintain a common roadmap and mostly standardize on both package detail layouts and section names. We do this on our mailing list and some IRC channels, none of which you have ever been on. I therefore am terribly concerned that you are going to cause a large number of users serious confusion and pain.

The BigBoss Repository Controversy [Updated]
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Comments (19)
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Salsa7 - December 9, 2008 at 3:27am
Can't we all get along!!!!!
Andrew - December 8, 2008 at 5:37am
Oh thats a shame i was just starting to enjoy this.
muccaeppollo - December 8, 2008 at 4:09am
as I said, it's just a question of money .... I'm wondering how much sleepers put on the table to "resolve" this controvercy ... we'll see
Sleepers - December 8, 2008 at 1:23am
Pumpkin, and to the rest of the people watching this thread. The controversy of BigBoss and Sleepers has ended and been resolved this evening. No further comments will be made on this topic from me.
pumpkin - December 7, 2008 at 11:47pm
"Sleepers was the technology that produced the repository that BigBoss still uses today" Can you elaborate on that a little? It seems awfully hand-wavey at first glance, and given the technical nature of many readers, I'm sure we can deal with the nitty-gritty details of what exactly you contributed to "BigBoss-ness". Or is it trade secret?
Walker - December 7, 2008 at 10:08pm
I totally support Cydia and BigBoss! All the 3rd party software I have on my iphone is from Cydia and the marjority of them are from BigBoss. I found them more stable and have better support. Keep up the good work guys. "nerd war"?! that's just stupid!
Sleepers - December 7, 2008 at 5:56pm
Just to clarify here, we are not suing anyone, we are not making false claims, we are not mirroring sites, we are simply putting our repository back online. BigBoss was a partner in Sleepers and since he was the only iPhone developer involved with the rest of us we felt it made sense to build out that brand. Unfortunately some people do not understand what a partnership is, Sleepers was the engine that produced the BigBoss brand, Sleepers was the technology that produced the repository that BigBoss still uses today, but hey, we do not want it, BigBoss can have it. Time to move on and just provide a better service to both developers and user then we did before. I do not expect everyone in here to understand the above statements or believe them, but it is what it is. We will let our new repository speak for itself.
t11chb - December 7, 2008 at 5:22pm
Your right man, you cant scratch you balls now a days without getting sued.
Awayze - December 7, 2008 at 4:10pm
People who say Epic Fail are just losers and sad now, it's just stupid!
DJFelix - December 7, 2008 at 3:40pm
It's as if you moved your hosting from GoDaddy to Dreamhost, and GoDaddy put up a mirror of your site and then claimed it was theirs all along. What horseshit. I agree with Saurik ... sleepers is getting off on the VERY wrong foot. EPIC FAIL
Jay Freeman (saurik)
Jay Freeman (saurik) - December 7, 2008 at 3:39pm
For the record, to the people who are saying indicating a preference to "resolve your differences", that is what I am trying to accomplish. Some of the issues, though, are kind of interesting and are requiring lawyers: as an example, Sleepers.net recently trademarked BigBoss' logo, filing /after/ he left ;P. The problems are running pretty deep... However, /despite/ all of that, I'm quite happy with the idea of Sleepers.net joining the community and even getting listed appropriately in Cydia's "More Package Sources" page. I just want to make certain with them that everything is going to work out alright, which mostly means that they do this with the rest of us and not without us. They seem to have a proclivity to want to discuss things behind "confidential" e-mail threads (and I don't just mean the random disclaimers at the bottom, but all but threatening me to not disclose simple, important details). Even though, great strides are being made: I have gotten them onto the cydia-packagers mailing list (which every other repository is a part of, even the really small ones), and are encouraging them to join the IRC channels that we frequent. I have also gotten them to respond the issue of how they planned on avoiding dumping numerous duplicate packages into the ecosystem (which unfortunately required the public exchange everyone saw). So please, no more of this "nerd war"? I, at least, do not feel that this needs to be the case, and am concerned that if you get enough people standing around chanting "fight! fight!" that it might turn into one (even if only in the eyes of the press/people, and not in those of the participants).
Number_41 - December 7, 2008 at 12:04pm
@ Tiich, You forget this is America dont you?! LOL N41
t11chb - December 7, 2008 at 11:48am
What they gonna do, sue him? lol
Andrew - December 7, 2008 at 10:54am
BTW, its Controversy. Might wanna fix that title...
Steve - December 7, 2008 at 9:20am
Seems to me like BigBoss aint the saint he's portraying himself to be.....
Liton - December 7, 2008 at 4:26am
In any case we support BigBoss as due to his activity people visit sleepers.net, Now after BigBoss left I never visit to sleepers even. BigBoss Rock!!!
muccaeppollo - December 7, 2008 at 3:56am
C'mon Sleepers, you are trying to make money on Big Boss acivities ..... What if you were hosting a bank site ? Ask users to put money into your brand new online bank ? What if you were hosting a rock band website ? Ask user to buy your brand new record or merchandise ? Everyone understands that it is a question of money made by advertising. Put the money on Big Boss desk and try to have him back: that's the only deal you can try to do. - I'll ask Big Boss to become his MD ;-) -
td10 - December 7, 2008 at 1:56am
Hey !!!! Not sure if I understand what is going off here:- I can only comment for the "users"of the repositories. We "the users" rely on both as a way of added value (in just about every case free) to the app store which is restricted to Apple's view of the iphone. This view is a) to make money b) to stop apps which avoid a. On behalf the users thanks to both, and please resolve your differences.
macfightclub - December 6, 2008 at 11:37pm
let's support big boss, big boss preferences is the best utility for iphone
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